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'The other problem we have is that we're always frightened of using our own clichés,' continues Martin. We don't follow trends - we still use everything that's around in our 'arsenal', but we try to turn it into ACR.' 'I always feel we're ahead, 'cause we believe in what we want to do. By the time everyone else catches up - like the whole dance thing everyone's dance bananas now - then we've moved on to other things. Part of the problem is that we're so far ahead. 'Force was the first time we really started 'writing' songs,' reminisces Donald, 'putting structures together something that we're still learning about. Force was their parting shot, in itself a distinguished album which, together with their track record, must have influenced their eventual split from independent labels and signing to a major, A&M. With six albums and countless singles under their belt they had failed to secure that all important hit single and crossover to chart success. 1986 witnessed ACR's long-running relationship with Factory turn sour. Much of ACR's extensive discography, especially that from their early years, is now highly collectable due to its rarity value. Taken onboard at the very beginning by the seminal Factory label, ACR released their first single 'All Night Party' in 1979, followed shortly by an album, The Graveyard And The Ballroom.

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Any kid who can afford to get an Atari with sequencer software and a couple of modules can sit in his bedroom and in a few months time will be turning out things that sound alright.' It was quite a British attitude towards music and it's the same with computers now. We didn't play other peoples tunes because we couldn't play them, so we played our own sort of music. Don could actually play drums, but we were all still learning with two guitars and a bass. When we formed none of us were musicians, and we were going about six months before we got a drummer. Martin Moscrop: 'Donald had previously been a handbag fitter, I was a maintenance electrician, Jeremy was a cleaner at Manchester University and Tom worked at a record shop. Inspired by the punk ethic, the band members came together in late 1978, all from different backgrounds but with a common need to express themselves musically - and they weren't about to be stopped by their common inability to play their instruments properly.

However, the success never materialised, and ACR remain one of this country's most under-rated bands.

Tunes like their infectious re-working of Carter Daniels' 'Shack Up', 'Good Together', and 'Won't Stop Loving You' seemed chart-bound. ACR have been there, done that, and lived to tell the tale.' Though they were overtaken by their contemporaries - Joy Division/New Order, OMD, and the ensuing Madchester scene - they have consistently earned critically respect for the work which has so far failed to achieve the big time breakthrough at which it so often hinted. To quote their latest press release, A Certain Ratio were 'formed in the amphetamine rush of 77', and are now 'thriving in the post-house haze of '92. A Certain Ratio '92: (L to R) Tony Quigley, Jeremy Kerr, Martin Moscrop and Donald Johnson.